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	<title>Comments on: Epic Scale</title>
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		<title>By: kylebarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218353</link>
		<dc:creator>kylebarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218353</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t need an answer since you are clearly busy, no pressure, thanks for your reply.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What I understand, of what you&#039;ve said is that elements which communicate meaning in games most successfully are the more apparent-to-narrative elements, such as characters (and settings)?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If so, I completely agree. I didn&#039;t mention it, as every medium employs those techniques to imbue meaning. I just focused on what is specific to video games - which I should have specified.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Looking forward to reading your piece on open worlds.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Kyle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t need an answer since you are clearly busy, no pressure, thanks for your reply.</p>
<p>What I understand, of what you&#39;ve said is that elements which communicate meaning in games most successfully are the more apparent-to-narrative elements, such as characters (and settings)?</p>
<p>If so, I completely agree. I didn&#39;t mention it, as every medium employs those techniques to imbue meaning. I just focused on what is specific to video games &#8211; which I should have specified.</p>
<p>Looking forward to reading your piece on open worlds.</p>
<p>Kyle</p>
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		<title>By: kylebarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218281</link>
		<dc:creator>kylebarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218281</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t need an answer since you are clearly busy, no pressure, thanks for your reply.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What I understand, of what you&#039;ve said is that elements which communicate meaning in games most successfully are the more apparent-to-narrative elements, such as characters (and settings)?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If so, I completely agree. I didn&#039;t mention it, as every medium employs those techniques to imbue meaning. I just focused on what is specific to video games - which I should have specified.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Looking forward to reading your piece on open worlds.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Kyle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t need an answer since you are clearly busy, no pressure, thanks for your reply.</p>
<p>What I understand, of what you&#39;ve said is that elements which communicate meaning in games most successfully are the more apparent-to-narrative elements, such as characters (and settings)?</p>
<p>If so, I completely agree. I didn&#39;t mention it, as every medium employs those techniques to imbue meaning. I just focused on what is specific to video games &#8211; which I should have specified.</p>
<p>Looking forward to reading your piece on open worlds.</p>
<p>Kyle</p>
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		<title>By: mittense</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218280</link>
		<dc:creator>mittense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218280</guid>
		<description>For whatever reason, Mass Effect just didn&#039;t jive with me like it seemed to have with everyone else. I loved the hell out of the beginning of the game, but when I was appointed to be a Spector I just started getting too many Knights of the Old Republic vibes. Mass Effect&#039;s seemingly-rigid adherence to the exact same story structure at KOTOR, a game that I quite liked, completely took me out of the game world. And Mass Effect&#039;s inability to focus on things that mattered, like the crew that the player spent the first quarter of the game with in such close proximity and intimacy, seemed to become secondary to the major ancient alien race hellbent on destroying the galaxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For whatever reason, Mass Effect just didn&#39;t jive with me like it seemed to have with everyone else. I loved the hell out of the beginning of the game, but when I was appointed to be a Spector I just started getting too many Knights of the Old Republic vibes. Mass Effect&#39;s seemingly-rigid adherence to the exact same story structure at KOTOR, a game that I quite liked, completely took me out of the game world. And Mass Effect&#39;s inability to focus on things that mattered, like the crew that the player spent the first quarter of the game with in such close proximity and intimacy, seemed to become secondary to the major ancient alien race hellbent on destroying the galaxy.</p>
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		<title>By: mittense</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218279</link>
		<dc:creator>mittense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218279</guid>
		<description>If I implied that meaning can&#039;t come from an intelligent game design then that was absolutely not my intent. I&#039;m an enormous proponent of putting more of the thematic and intellectual focus of story-telling into gameplay mechanics rather than traditionally-used cut scenes and dialog trees. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That said, one of our best ways of infusing a game world with meaning and character is by infusing the people that cohabit the game world that a player inhabits. We can fill game mechanics with meaning all we want, but our primary way of relating themes and stories to players is through a vessel that all people intrinsically understand: other people. Shadow of the Colossus, while I admittedly haven&#039;t played much of it, infused its colossi with emotions by imbuing them with qualities that we look for in people: emotion, heart, and flaws. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I could write an entire entry in reply to this but it&#039;s late, so I hope this answers or at least postpones your question until it comes up again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I implied that meaning can&#39;t come from an intelligent game design then that was absolutely not my intent. I&#39;m an enormous proponent of putting more of the thematic and intellectual focus of story-telling into gameplay mechanics rather than traditionally-used cut scenes and dialog trees. </p>
<p>That said, one of our best ways of infusing a game world with meaning and character is by infusing the people that cohabit the game world that a player inhabits. We can fill game mechanics with meaning all we want, but our primary way of relating themes and stories to players is through a vessel that all people intrinsically understand: other people. Shadow of the Colossus, while I admittedly haven&#39;t played much of it, infused its colossi with emotions by imbuing them with qualities that we look for in people: emotion, heart, and flaws. </p>
<p>I could write an entire entry in reply to this but it&#39;s late, so I hope this answers or at least postpones your question until it comes up again.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218277</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218277</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just going to chime in and say that I think that Mass Effect did manage to achieve that interpersonal connection, not just the &quot;save the galaxy&quot; thing. For me, Wrex is the most memorable part of the game. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Based on what I&#039;d read about the game before I played, I assumed Wrex was going to be straight out evil guy, basically the HK-47 (see Knights of the Old Republic) of Mass Effect. But he joined my party early and I didn&#039;t like the other guy I had at the time, so I made him my third. And then he never left my active party, because he was so darn cool. He easily had the best lines in the game (and a great voice actor), and as you learn about his story, you find out that he&#039;s actually a pretty nice guy who just got burned.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m getting into spoiler territory now, so if you haven&#039;t finished the game yet, stop reading here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;---&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Later on in the game, there&#039;s a point where Wrex may leave your party. I got really agitated in that scene, because I&#039;d played the whole game with Wrex at that point, ever since he first joined up with me and I liked him. But I didn&#039;t have enough Paragon or Renegade points to influence him one way or another, so I had to go through the normal dialogue options. I thought I was going to lose him for sure, I assumed the game would just be scripted that way, but his response was that I had earned his trust and that he&#039;d trust me again in this situation. I was so relieved at that point.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So yeah. I love Wrex. Wrex is awesome. And oh yeah, I saved the galaxy, too. Let&#039;s go get some beers, Wrex!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;---&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I like the post though, and I appreciate your point. I&#039;ve been thinking along the same lines recently... &quot;How can you make a game feel more mature and more personal?&quot; (And I don&#039;t mean darker, brooding, boobs, blood, drugs, and sex &quot;mature&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m just going to chime in and say that I think that Mass Effect did manage to achieve that interpersonal connection, not just the &#8220;save the galaxy&#8221; thing. For me, Wrex is the most memorable part of the game. </p>
<p>Based on what I&#39;d read about the game before I played, I assumed Wrex was going to be straight out evil guy, basically the HK-47 (see Knights of the Old Republic) of Mass Effect. But he joined my party early and I didn&#39;t like the other guy I had at the time, so I made him my third. And then he never left my active party, because he was so darn cool. He easily had the best lines in the game (and a great voice actor), and as you learn about his story, you find out that he&#39;s actually a pretty nice guy who just got burned.</p>
<p>I&#39;m getting into spoiler territory now, so if you haven&#39;t finished the game yet, stop reading here.</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>Later on in the game, there&#39;s a point where Wrex may leave your party. I got really agitated in that scene, because I&#39;d played the whole game with Wrex at that point, ever since he first joined up with me and I liked him. But I didn&#39;t have enough Paragon or Renegade points to influence him one way or another, so I had to go through the normal dialogue options. I thought I was going to lose him for sure, I assumed the game would just be scripted that way, but his response was that I had earned his trust and that he&#39;d trust me again in this situation. I was so relieved at that point.</p>
<p>So yeah. I love Wrex. Wrex is awesome. And oh yeah, I saved the galaxy, too. Let&#39;s go get some beers, Wrex!</p>
<p>&#8212;</p>
<p>I like the post though, and I appreciate your point. I&#39;ve been thinking along the same lines recently&#8230; &#8220;How can you make a game feel more mature and more personal?&#8221; (And I don&#39;t mean darker, brooding, boobs, blood, drugs, and sex &#8220;mature&#8221;.)</p>
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		<title>By: kylebarrett</title>
		<link>http://www.polycat.net/1848/epic-scale/comment-page-1/#comment-218276</link>
		<dc:creator>kylebarrett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.polycat.net/?p=1848#comment-218276</guid>
		<description>Even games that are given a pedestal when it comes to such matters; ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, they are still both about overcoming (sometimes literally) massive odds.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So this is really true. Not many games focus on intricacies, but as you said, intricacies are hard to map to a controller, and most of the time they aren&#039;t that fun.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now something I disagree with, in that vein, is that game design is exclusive to fun and the idea that a story sets the stage for meaning, as you put it - as opposed to game design. I think meaning can come from &#039;game design&#039; (of course game design implies the creation of a balanced and well executed set of rules within which the player can have fun - and in this case I am using the term unconventionally).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For example, the lumbering pace, and &#039;mobile turret&#039; movement in Resident Evil 4 can communicate desperation. And in Shadow of the Colossus the second-person control of Agro the horse, and the horses free will while riding communicates a personality or at least being.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In these ways, I feel game design can communicate more meaning specific to the interactive medium, than story can. But I guess media language in virtual worlds is still young and underdeveloped.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Great read again though. Michael Abbot of Brainy Gamer actually started playing this again recently. Second awesome piece of writing on it, I have read recently.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Kyle</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even games that are given a pedestal when it comes to such matters; ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, they are still both about overcoming (sometimes literally) massive odds.</p>
<p>So this is really true. Not many games focus on intricacies, but as you said, intricacies are hard to map to a controller, and most of the time they aren&#39;t that fun.</p>
<p>Now something I disagree with, in that vein, is that game design is exclusive to fun and the idea that a story sets the stage for meaning, as you put it &#8211; as opposed to game design. I think meaning can come from &#39;game design&#39; (of course game design implies the creation of a balanced and well executed set of rules within which the player can have fun &#8211; and in this case I am using the term unconventionally).</p>
<p>For example, the lumbering pace, and &#39;mobile turret&#39; movement in Resident Evil 4 can communicate desperation. And in Shadow of the Colossus the second-person control of Agro the horse, and the horses free will while riding communicates a personality or at least being.</p>
<p>In these ways, I feel game design can communicate more meaning specific to the interactive medium, than story can. But I guess media language in virtual worlds is still young and underdeveloped.</p>
<p>Great read again though. Michael Abbot of Brainy Gamer actually started playing this again recently. Second awesome piece of writing on it, I have read recently.</p>
<p>Kyle</p>
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